EPISODE 2: The Psychology of Clutter
Jill Nicolini Interviews Libby Saylor Founder & Professional Organizer at Anchor Girl Organizing
Transcript
From Manhattan, this is the New York executive podcast, the Voices that Move markets the conversations that shape the boardroom.
Live from our studios in midtown Manhattan, here is today's program.
We are so excited to have Libby Sailor back joining us today.
Founder and owner of her own company called Anchor Girl Organizing.
She is a professional organizer because based out of Leland, North Carolina, which is just right outside of Wilmington.
And we're excited she's back today to talk more about how she's helping people simplify their homes.
Organizing, decluttering.
And there's so much that goes into that.
So first and foremost, welcome back.
How's everything been?
Thank you.
Thank you, Jill.
It's been good.
It's been good.
I've been slowly helping myself actually get a little more settled in my house.
So, you know, I've always got something going on in my brain.
I'm a very granular person.
And so, for instance, I deflated all of the pool equipment and I just bought the perfect container so I can put it away for the winter.
How did you deflate them?
Because me and my kids end up sitting on them trying to squeeze them out.
Oh, there's a tool.
There's a tool that I think cobalt makes.
It blows them up within minutes.
And then it also, when you flip a switch, it reverses and it sucks all the air out.
It's fantastic.
Oh, my goodness.
Thank you for telling me that because I bleached.
I bleached all of mine that were outside and got all the goof off them, and now they're outside the door and waiting to come in.
Thank you for that.
All right, you're welcome.
We're excited to be back from chaos to collected.
Tell us what we're going to be focusing on for today.
And those that don't even know you, just a little background of what Anchor Girl Organizing is all about.
Well, I am a certified NAPO professional organizer.
I have been organizing for about six years now.
And prior to that, I was in the corporate C suite, executive support in the fashion industy.
And took basically anticipating their needs to anticipating the needs of people in their home.
Today, though, we are going to get into the psychology of clutter.
I want to talk a little bit more in depth than we did the first episode so that people can start to really think about, okay, which one of these might apply to me?
Or there could be one.
There could be more than one.
We have family units.
Sometimes theirs play off of hours and it can get very complex as to how the clutter accumulates.
So how do we approach then?
Decluttering, because that is the first step is the edit portion of getting yourself sort of out of the chaos zone.
So I really do.
I want to talk about how clutter is rarely about the stuff.
It's often about a decision that we delayed and an emotional attachment, a habit, a life transition, or even an imagined future underneath it.
An example of that would be the clothes that we keep in our closets.
It's for that when I lose the weight or that job or those types of future thinking that person.
Are you keeping things for the person that you are today and for the life that you're living today?
Or.
Or are you falling into the trap of I might need that or what if I want it?
All of those things.
As a professional organizer, it's my job to come in with a nonjudgmental view and try and see where systems are failing for usually multiple family members.
Yeah.
Well, I'm.
Thank you for sharing this.
And clutter.
Something that I've mentioned before, but I struggle with clutter and organization.
My home, even my desk here, it's just if you can't see.
But there's just papers everywhere.
I have trouble putting things away.
There's a whole path up my steps in my home to all papers in my bedroom, papers all over the floor.
I try organizing.
I still have ready.
I still have Easter decorations out and even Christmas decorations out from last year in my bedroom.
Again, spare, you know, my personal story, but I did have a bad car accident January 30th.
Then I had a flood in my home February 3rd.
I had to focus on a part of the house.
So I'm just behind in every area.
And it makes me so uneasy.
Before the flood, I had issues and now I have even more issues with clutter.
And it's a mental delay of not having time.
Procrastination, holding on to things.
Like you said, why can't I throw some of this stuff on my floor away?
Why can't.
It's just so.
I just want to say empathize to people out there with this because it's serious and it really is something mental that is not right in my head.
And I know this.
I've been like this for a year.
So thank you for helping people like myself.
Yes.
Yes.
Well, I think there's really six categories as to why we hold on.
And just to, you know, preface that with you're a typical client.
You know, you have a very busy life.
Usually it's time.
You just don't even have the time.
You have children, you have A full time job.
You.
You have a husband.
It's just sometimes it's hard when you're bargaining with yourself and trying to say, well, what do I have time for?
Well, that's a great way to make a delayed decision.
And this is an excellent reason to delegate out so that someone can come in and help and assist.
And why I'm building sort of organizing aspect of my business, because I think that many people can and want to do it themselves.
They do want to learn about themselves and their own habits and what's going on inside of their house.
But that all being said, I think there are six things that really keep us holding on.
And I'll start with the sentimental attachment that could feel like an object that maybe someone gave you.
Yeah, that's no longer here.
It could be something that was a season of life for you, like maybe back in your heyday, you know, you have all of these beautiful dresses post Covid.
We are not dressing the way we used to dress.
And how do you let go of that, have that emotional attachment to it?
And then the identity portion of it that the things that we own, they quickly create an identity.
We talked in the last episode about people coming into our homes and what our homes are an expression of usually the woman of the house and how that identity and that projection.
If you're on point, you're like, great, everybody come over.
Why not?
But when you're feeling like you're a little bit behind and what you were describing, just what you're dealing with, then the shame comes in and then you don't want anybody over there.
I'm so embarrassed.
I'm so.
Well, it gets better.
You walk through my front door and all my son's furniture from the flood that was in his bedroom is all to the right, still in the living room.
There's no space.
Oh, I had boxes there for months.
It took me up until April to get the boxes out.
But now the furniture's still there because the upstairs isn't done.
The carpet needs to be ripped up, the walls have been done, but it's a slow process.
And I'm so humiliated to have people walking my home.
Well, I offer you some grace.
You're only one person, Jill.
I know, I know, but that's often the trigger point of why people call and say, I need help.
But the first thing they need to know is what do we do?
So.
So going on to the second reason why we hold on would be the just in case.
Okay?
And you know, what if I need it or what If I want it, I try to start really small with clients and get them to.
I have a rule, it's called 20 minutes or $20.
So if you can replace the item in 20 minutes for $20 or less, you can let it go.
So let's start there.
You know, it's not like it's often in an abyss that you're never going to get get it back.
We would never start with things that are definitely irreplaceable.
But if you start with just the mindset of, you know what, it's the scarcity mindset, I think especially that some of, you know, the baby boomer generation has, they lived through the Great Depression.
They don't want to let go of things because they're afraid.
And so things are so accessible now that there's very few things that are just completely off the list irreplaceable.
The third one is guilt.
And so guilt can come from, well, it was a gift or it cost X amount of dollars or getting rid of it feels wasteful going back to that scarcity mindset.
So in that case, okay, it was a gift.
My first question to my client would be, is this a gift that you're using?
And if the answer is no, I like to introduce the idea that you can always gracefully accept a gift and then quietly donate it or re gift it to get it out of your house.
A story.
I had a client who was a high level executive and he would go to all of the sporting games, box seats, and the swag he would bring home was just, God, it's, it's coolers, it's cutting boards, it's cups, it's.
It, it was unreal.
Anyway, he did, he had so much trouble getting rid of it and it ended up filling an entire closet.
And so that was somebody that I worked with.
Just because it was given to you, it's okay to keep moving it along.
You know, I think the important thing is that you accept it gracefully.
The other thing was it costs money.
Well, yeah, I have some clothes and some handbags in my closet that I know how much I spent on them.
But we have great resources now.
We've got the realreal.
They're incredible company to work with.
I love the RealReal.
You pack up the box, you send it off, they pay for all the shipping, they authenticate the items, and whatever they don't keep, they send back to you for free.
So I like to keep a good tier system of consignment so that I have places that I can still maybe recoup money before I actually just donate it.
And then as far as the getting rid of it feels wasteful.
Well, that's.
That's that scarcity mindset.
And so when I work with clients and I start to introduce them to some of my resources, then they start to say, oh, okay, well, I could maybe let go of that because I know I can get it again.
A great resource I introduced to One client was Replacements.com or Replacements Limited.
Let's say you have wedding china.
You broke a couple.
Well, we could buy.
If they have the pattern in stock, we could buy the plate that you broke, and we could keep the set and it's intact.
It's a great break.
Win, win.
The fourth one would be sort of an aspirational identity, if you will.
This is the clothes, the hobbies, the projects, sort of the belongings that we thought we would become.
So maybe we have a bunch of stuff out in the garage and we were going to be aspirational and we were going to cut our own lawn, and we've got the lawnmower and the trimmer and the this thing and the dotting out there.
But guess what, you have a lawn service.
Why do you need all of that stuff?
But that person that accepted that responsibility, that ownership of that, of that chore, then feels ownership for the items.
And so separating from the ownership of it is a huge part of letting go.
And.
And it's essential, obviously, you know, hobbies.
How many, you know, how many hockey sticks do you have?
And you don't play hockey anymore.
I have to interject.
I just cleaned out my shed in the backyard.
Like, I'm working on it.
And I have double.
I have quadruple rakes.
I have shovels that I don't even think are mine.
Why do I need six shovels?
I don't shovel.
There's no property to shovel.
And I put stuff aside.
I have all these bags of rubber mulch I don't use.
It's gotta, like, I don't know.
So I'm trying to declutter and.
Yeah.
And minimize.
But you're right.
I'm like, why have I had all these?
How did they get here?
Maybe they were left from the last owner.
I'm like, why?
But you're right.
You got to go through things at times, right?
And that plays off of family members.
What if it's your husband that's doing this?
And you're like, honey, we don't need one more shovel.
We got them.
Stop buying them.
So, you know, that's.
Or you know, you've got a child that's given up a sport, but they're not quite ready to give up the sporting equipment.
Then the fifth one is decision fatigue.
Decision fatigue is an absolute real thing.
When somebody is decluttering, we usually start with a very small space, maybe a junk drawer, maybe the pantry, something that's low on the emotional scale.
Because making decision after decision after decision, you're exhausted after maybe an hour or two, especially during the move where it's all, it's, it's required that you kind of downsize.
And how do you get through all of the stuff without driving yourself into the ground?
So the decision fatigue is definitely a reason why we hold on.
And then the last one is the life transitions.
Moose, divorce, loss, children growing up and launching, which is ultimately what we want them to do.
Retirement, combining households, having a new boyfriend or somebody that you live with for the first time or a roommate or something like that.
So all of those changes can be anxiety producing for some.
And so then they cling to the stuff.
So my job as an organizer is to come in and help our listeners ultimately be able to let go, give them resources to which are available if they want to do it, such as donation centers, such as the real real, as I mentioned, or organizers haul the stuff away.
I mean, we use haulers when there's large amounts of stuff, which is great because it all goes like in a wow moment.
But we also, we drop off the donation centers.
I have and my mentor Anna, she introduced me to the real real and I have to tell you, she did all of the work for the client.
And now granted, the client had a lot of high end stuff, but she literally helped the client pay for our services of his, I want to say, 6,000 square foot move just by his commissions from the railroad.
So we're always strategizing and strategizing.
A, A professional organizer's bench needs to be very deep with resources because obviously we can't do it all.
But we need to know, okay, you need an estate sale, I know who to call.
You need a hauler, I know that person too.
So that really is what brings the value of the organizer coming into your home or virtually to help you start to move those.
Move those, I call them congestion points, you know, your stairs, your paper and paper.
Paper is a whole specialty of some organizers.
I do paper, but some only do paper.
I mean, it's a whole level of filing system that has to work for, for Jill.
It can't necessarily work for me, it has to work for you.
And how Your mind works and how you're going to be able to, to be set up for success.
Wow, thank you, thank you for that.
All right, this is a great conversation by the way.
If we are just tuning in.
Just got to remind everyone who we're speaking to and how we can contact her.
Libby Sailor here.
It's Anchor Girl organizing dot com.
That's Anchor Girl organizing.
Go to the website again.
The company is based in North Carolina and this is great.
I'm having a great show today with you, Libby.
You're really, yeah.
Diving in deep for us.
Continue, continue.
We still have more time.
Oh, yes, yes.
Good, good, good.
I think also the importance of understanding my clients reason for holding on will ultimately bring them more value in the services if they allow me in.
And the trust is built because you really can't organize yourself out of over consumption.
It doesn't work.
You are literally just shifting stuff.
And I, I have done it for clients and really, you know, come up a hard wall on.
No, I'm not getting rid of this.
I want to keep it.
I, I hear the six things, you know, maybe a couple of them that we just discussed, you know, what if I need it?
It costs so much money and they won't budge.
And ultimately it does change the outcome.
But hopefully my hope is, is that they'll come around when they start to really feel it coming into the in, you know, upon them.
But acquisition is definitely part of, you know, it's the initial step of having too much over consumption.
I mean we're Americans, we over consume just about on everything, so bigger or better.
And so I think that I try to encourage my clients to really take a pause before they buy.
So that might be some of the side conversations that we're having while we're getting to know each other and decluttering, do I want this item?
Do I need this item?
And what is it going to mean once I have it?
Is it going to mean I can impress people?
Is it going to mean I made success, I'm here, I've made it, everybody see me.
And I really do encourage people to use the stuff they love.
So many people like, oh no, no, that's the good stuff.
We don't use that.
We only get one trip around the sun, you know, and outside of children breaking our stuff unexpectedly, which happens, use the good stuff.
You're worth the good stuff.
So once a week, get out the nice china, have a date night with the nice china, you know, wear that nice dress if you feel great in it.
I mean, I have A saying for me.
I dress for me.
It makes me happy.
If other people enjoy it, then wonderful.
And if you don't, who will?
Trying to live my time, my trip around, you know, the life to the fullest.
And I want to feel confident and good about myself.
And like you said, like, there's all this visual clutter around you.
Guess where that all gets stored?
It gets stored up here in your brain.
And so visual clutter has a direct link to psychological stress.
There's been studies.
It's proven.
And so setting yourself up in a manner once we've just decluttered, that you can basically end your day so that you can have the next day set up for success is seismic shift, life changing.
And it doesn't take much.
And it builds off of itself because what drops away is the shame.
And what comes in place is confidence.
I've gotten texts from clients that.
You'd.
Be so proud of me.
I did X, Y, and Z.
Or I dropped this off at the donation center.
Or remember all of those bags I was saving for recycling?
I had a client that had so many bags.
I can imagine.
Yeah.
But she was excited, and it would build off of itself, and then the is replaced with confidence.
And that is what brings me joy.
Yeah.
All right, well, thank you.
We still got a few more minutes.
Okay.
More minutes to wrap it up.
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
That's all right.
No, you don't apologize.
I've got.
I could talk, you know, about organizing for days.
I think if we were going to sort of circle back and wind down on an idea is the goal isn't perfection.
The goal isn't Pinterest perfect.
We're not going on the home edit.
We don't need to put our books in a rainbow on our bookshelves.
That really is where design and organization merge and create beauty.
And that is possible.
That is very hard to maintain.
And so I would say that we start slowly.
We don't start with high, emotionally charged things.
And we build our confidence.
We build our trust.
And before you know it, the confidence is coming out of the client.
And they're really.
They're.
They're jazzed.
They're like, They're.
Hey, hon, come over here.
We're gonna.
We're gonna go through that shed.
We're gonna go through that garage.
We're gonna.
We're gonna do it.
And so it really can be a seismic shift for the whole family, too.
But it.
It really starts with the edit.
I don't really like to say purge.
I feel purge is a punitive.
Word.
It means you've done something wrong and that you're bad.
We're editing.
We're finding those things you love so that you can enjoy them more, more and they're not cluttered by stuff that you aren't using.
You're convincing yourself of some justification.
And we're going to try and move out of that space into wow.
I want to have people over.
I want to have a party.
I want to, you know, throw a pool party for my kids, whatever, and not be like, you know, horse blinders.
Like, oh God, don't look over there and oh God, you don't want to look in that corner.
No, it's freedom.
Ultimately, it's freedom.
Once we can get down to the why, why are you acquiring so much?
We can free you from that.
Thank you.
We all need some of that freedom.
Oh, my goodness.
Well, let's talk how it works to work with you and how we could reach out to you.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
I can.
You can peruse my website, anchorgirlorganizing.com all one word.
There you're going to see a lot of my method, methodology, my history, my personal history and how I got into it.
Eventually I'm going to be putting the podcasts there on socials.
You can find me at Anchor Girl Living, both on Instagram, Facebook, tick tock.
There is a period between each word.
So it's anchor period girl, period living.
There you'll just learn more about me.
I really invite your listeners to check me out.
I mean, it has to be the right fit.
And then hoping by early 2027 I will have the certification required for virtual organizing and I can invite a whole lot of new demographic into my world and hopefully help them find that freedom that I'm talking about and that shift from shame into confidence.
Beautiful.
Thank you so much.
And how can we reach you?
Oh, yes, you're welcome to email me at Libby@anchorgirlorganizing.com Beautiful.
Thank you so much.
Hope you have a fantastic.
Thank you, Jill.
Thank you.
Stay tuned.
We'll be right back with more.
Looking forward to seeing you again soon.
Thanks so much.
Are you looking for calm in the middle of a cluttered?
Are you ready to replace stress with order, beauty and function?
Hi, my name is Libby Saylor and I'm the founder of Anchor Girl Organizing.
I help individuals and families navigate the storm of clutter with personalized organizing solutions designed around the way they really live.
Visit anchorgirlorganizing.com and let's create a home that supports you.
Get anchored and get started today.